23:55 This is a story about
23:59 Last week, we told you how AI
24:01 is cutting into traffic
24:04 and what that could mean
24:06 But Google isn't standing still
24:08 for all the challenges
24:10 Last month, it announced
24:12 to its search approach
24:15 Nick Fox is Google's
24:17 for Knowledge and Information,
24:19 and the man
24:22 With your experience,
24:25 which is probably unfair,
24:27 compared to other innovations
24:30 -Oh, I think number one
24:32 Westin: For Google,
24:33 includes AI-generated answers,
24:37 and new tools that can reason
24:40 monitor information
24:43 and even complete tasks
24:46 How would you
24:48 -You know,
24:49 AI is the best thing
24:51 And, you know, a lot of people
24:53 A lot of people are saying,
24:54 "Hey, what does AI
24:56 And what we see, you know,
24:58 is you should be able to ask
24:59 whatever question
25:00 And the way I think
25:02 probably
25:03 that go through our head
25:06 We ask maybe a few of them,
25:07 maybe we ask 5 of them,
25:09 Why do we not ask them all?
25:11 if there will
25:13 It might be hard
25:14 So our big idea is you should
25:17 And AI
25:19 AI enables people
25:20 to ask whatever question
25:22 and get a helpful response.
25:24 And so that's
25:25 Westin: The quality
25:27 is a priority for Google,
25:28 even as it's changed its search
25:33 And Rand Fishkin,
25:34 who's specialized in the busines
25:37 says that improved experience
25:39 is very much central
25:41 -Instead, they push those down
25:43 and they put the instant answer
25:47 They call them AI overviews.
25:48 In the long run,
25:49 it's better
25:51 and it creates an addiction
25:56 If they can get people
25:58 and instantly answering
25:59 they would come back more often,
26:01 they would trust Google more,
26:03 and they would click
26:06 So Google is hurting themselves
26:09 costing themselves
26:11 that they could charge
26:12 so that in the future
26:15 $50, $500 from you.
26:17 Westin: Fox does not deny
26:20 if its new approach
26:22 gives users more reason
26:25 but sees that as a feature
26:28 -What we're seeing with users
26:29 is they're asking
26:31 than they've ever asked before.
26:32 They're getting the approach
26:35 the approach that really defines
26:36 what Google in search
26:38 is that we're able to bring
26:40 together with the best of AI.
26:41 Where we're able to bring
26:43 built on our Gemini technology
26:46 in close collaboration
26:48 And then we're able to bring
26:50 so people can get links,
26:51 they can discover content
26:54 but they can also get
26:56 that contextualize the web
26:58 and also give
27:00 that answer their question.
27:02 Westin: But Fox insists
27:04 is not the right metric
27:07 He'd rather people
27:09 on a particular question
27:11 and be able to press further
27:14 including from the web.
27:16 -For us, it doesn't
27:18 and to some extent, attention.
27:19 But we don't measure search
27:22 are people spending on search.
27:24 We measure search
27:26 are people doing,
27:27 how many tasks are people doing,
27:29 If it takes two queries
27:32 instead of five queries
27:34 we would prefer that.
27:35 We actually don't want people
27:37 in a way where, you know,
27:38 if they're doing more queries
27:40 and they're not getting
27:41 or they're spending more time
27:43 and not getting
27:44 that's not what we optimize for.
27:46 We actually try
27:47 as quickly as we can
27:49 one of the things
27:51 has been a hallmark of Google.
27:53 We do want people to be doing
27:55 If we can help people with,
27:57 twice as many of their questions
28:00 that's great.
28:01 But it should be they're doing
28:03 because they're getting
28:04 rather than
28:05 to get the same
28:08 Westin: As AI takes on
28:10 in helping us gain access
28:13 there are those concerned
28:15 discouraging
28:17 Caitlin Petre
28:19 "All the News
28:22 -I think
28:23 to think about what's happening
28:25 with people who make content
28:29 as this kind of longer story
28:33 between tech companies
28:34 and people who create
28:37 And then the question becomes,
28:39 if the business model
28:43 and particularly I'm concerned
28:47 but if the business model
28:50 kind of goes away
28:53 and even more punishing
28:56 what do we do about that?
28:57 -You know people today expect
28:59 that when you come to Google,
29:02 Westin: Fox says
29:04 that whatever Google does
29:07 not take away from the value
29:10 for the sake of all involved.
29:12 What does this mean
29:16 but for the rest of the web,
29:17 the rest of content generators?
29:19 I mean,
29:21 a way to organize
29:23 And a lot of content generators
29:24 got linked back
29:27 What does this new approach
29:29 -So we remain committed
29:32 Right? That's a core part
29:34 And, I would say, relative
29:38 really any other organization
29:40 we care about the web
29:43 We're a company
29:45 We're a company
29:47 And so that is
29:51 And so that leads
29:53 to how we actually build
29:55 So, for example,
29:58 It's AI with links
30:00 We don't think it has to...
30:02 The users need to make a choice.
30:04 Do I want AI or the web?
30:05 But rather we can bring
30:07 in a really effective way.
30:09 So we have lots of links
30:12 It's not just because
30:14 We also think
30:17 Right?
30:18 you want to go deep on a topic,
30:20 you might get
30:22 to give you the context.
30:25 But then you want to read it.
30:26 You want to read it more deeply.
30:27 You want to see
30:29 You might want to see,
30:31 you know, firsthand perspective.
30:33 You might want
30:34 who was actually there.
30:35 You actually...
30:37 You don't just want
30:39 And so we're cognizant of that.
30:41 And we design around that.
30:42 People are searching
30:44 People are searching
30:45 for topics they were never
30:47 That all creates
30:49 to get discovered
30:51 Right? If a user
30:53 the website
30:54 never would have gotten a click.
30:56 This is an expansionary moment,
30:57 not just for search,
30:59 Westin: Accuracy and trust
31:01 of Google search.
31:03 But in an era
31:05 where users
31:07 to that underlying source,
31:09 ensuring the quality
31:11 has become more important
31:13 Accuracy and trust are important
31:17 How do you monitor that?
31:18 Because there are
31:20 who actually have almost a goal
31:22 of putting out information
31:24 That's not accurate.
31:25 How do you monitor
31:27 -I mean, this is
31:29 for years and years,
31:30 is what we've been doing
31:32 We understand the web.
31:33 We understand the web very well.
31:35 We understand, you know,
31:38 of PageRank was
31:40 the citations across the web
31:43 what's more valuable
31:45 We've obviously built on that,
31:46 you know, tremendously
31:48 But we understand the web well.
31:49 We understand
31:52 We understand what's reliable.
31:53 We understand
31:56 We're also able to understand
31:58 when we get it right,
32:00 because we're able to understand
32:02 sort of metrics
32:05 So, for example,
32:06 a new AI experience
32:08 we know, based on, you know,
32:11 we run experiments,
32:13 and we can analyze those to see,
32:15 has this improved
32:17 We only release changes
32:19 the experience.
32:20 Westin: Are there
32:22 that you have to be
32:23 I mean, I'm mindful of the fact
32:25 we're gonna have elections here,
32:26 coming up in November,
32:28 trying to use AI and the web
32:31 to misinform
32:33 or foreign governments.
32:34 What do you do
32:36 -We are particularly careful
32:40 So if an election type
32:41 we're particularly careful
32:44 a health kind of question.
32:46 The way we approach that
32:48 Number one, if we don't think
32:50 of the information
32:51 we won't show an AI response
32:53 So that's kind of,
32:55 that's the first level of it.
32:57 The second is we invest
32:59 We focus particularly heavily
33:02 in categories where the,
33:03 where the stakes
33:05 And then the third piece is
33:06 where we're clear with users
33:09 And we indicate, you know,
33:12 so that users can be cognizant
33:16 Westin:
33:18 information online,
33:20 it is also reshaping
33:23 And while Google
33:25 the rise of AI
33:28 to a new wave of competitors.
33:30 You come from a very strong
33:33 I mean, you've become a verb
33:36 in addition to a noun
33:39 Do you have
33:41 against other AI companies
33:43 in that you have search
33:45 rather than starting in AI?
33:47 -I think our advantage comes
33:52 and a deep focus on innovation
33:56 I think one of the maybe
34:00 that Google has
34:02 many disruptions before.
34:03 We went through
34:05 We arose, you know,
34:07 There was Ajax technologies,
34:10 there's been sort of time
34:13 Each time it would be,
34:16 And we have worked through those
34:17 and we have really a playbook
34:20 through those, which is
34:22 innovate through--
34:26 with a an excitement
34:28 about what the technology
34:31 and a promise to build
34:33 a better product
34:35 And so I think that's a
34:38 through any
34:40 to rely on that playbook.
34:42 Westin: You raise, I think,
34:44 I mean, was there
34:47 at Google to say, "We're doing
34:50 why do we need
34:52 It's sort of a form
34:55 Was there any sense of,
34:56 we're doing pretty well,
34:58 - Never. Because...
35:00 Because we've seen it before
35:02 and we understand
35:04 if you don't innovate for users,
35:06 you'll become irrelevant.
35:08 And that's so clear.
35:09 We know that.
35:10 We know that
35:12 And so we see
35:14 We jump on it.
35:15 We invent the new technologies
35:18 But we see it. We jump on it.
35:19 And we know
35:22 it will be--
35:24 We know that our business
35:28 Westin: For Google, the choice
35:30 its strong business and search
35:32 or having someone else
35:34 As AI yet again reshapes
35:38 and consumed,
35:40 the question will be,
35:42 whether this new innovation
35:44 what they want and need.
35:48 -We're seeing
35:50 And, you know, the best sign
35:51 that we see is
35:54 Westin: Up next,
35:55 the Men's World Cup has returned
35:58 for the first time since 1994.
36:00 It's bigger and longer
36:04 But can the fans afford it?
36:10 Westin: This is a story